How similar or different is Polybius' analysis to that provided by Aristotle in his Politics?
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Asked 22nd Feb, 2016
Clifford Angell Bates
University of Warsaw
Polybius knowledge of Aristotle Politics?
One one looks at Polybius's treatment of revolutions in Book 8 of his History, it looks as if he never read Aristotle's Politics book 5. In fact Polybius's account of the cycle of politeia looks more indebted to Plato and to Plutarch than to Aristotle. What evidence is that Polybius knew of Aristotle's Politics, or like most Roman authors, Aristotle's Politics was unknown to him?
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History of Political Thought
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2nd May, 2018
Clifford Angell Bates
University of Warsaw
I would also add, the original point of this question was an attempt to falsify the claim that Aristotle's Politics was little know or read, or that was either forgotten or lost immediately with the passing of the Hellenistic age and the rise of Rome. That the Politics and the specific lessons it offered in contrdistinction to Plato or Xenophon was rather unknown, epecially the teaching about politeia that were found in books 4 through 6. Those lessons only somewhat came to light when arround the 13th century AD that the Politics was rediscovered by some monks rummaging arround old Greek and Latin texts they got their hands on.
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28th Feb, 2016
H.G. Callaway
Temple University
Mainz, Germany
Dear Ward & readers,
The readings you suggest might certainly be helpful to the present question and thread, but if it were a matter of explicit references to Aristotle in Polybius, then I suspect they would have already turned up.
Lacking explicit references, it remains to look for similarities of content. Does Polybius make use of recognizable Aristotelian arguments in relation to his doubts on the persistence of Roman rule? What grounds does he give for this view? Looking again at the summary Bates initially supplied, what strikes me as interesting are the Aristotelian arguments concerning revolution and neglect of "small matters" and arguments concerned with lack of cultural homogeneity in the polity.
Generally, I'm inclined to suppose that a major defect of empires generally, is that the central, cosmopolitan authority becomes incapable to keeping track of relevant detail in the expanded provinces. The sheer extent of the empire becomes problematic along with the variation of constitutive political and social detail in the provinces. Imposed uniformity of policy may facilitate central administration, but at the danger or cost of disrupting local life and relations. The provinces may thus become more like subservient dependencies, ever in need of support from centralized administration, instead of offering support to the empire.
H.G. Callaway
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23rd Feb, 2016
Margaret Ward
University of Cambridge
Excuse my intervention, in that this is not my current field of research.
You will have checked through the wonderful work of Frank Walbank. I notice, however, that footnote 29 on p. 206 in D. W. Baronowski, Polybius and Roman imperialism [Bristol, 2013, accessed online] argues, quoting other sources somewhat briefly, for Polybius's acquaintance with Aristotle's Politics, whether at first-hand or through a Peripatetic treatise.
Sadly, Prof Walbank is no longer with us to be consulted.
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23rd Feb, 2016
Clifford Angell Bates
University of Warsaw
Margaret Ward... thanks.. I just bought a used copy from amazon.co.uk... I will need to check the note... and what the evidence.
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24th Feb, 2016
Margaret Ward
University of Cambridge
I suspect that the evidence is slight - ?
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24th Feb, 2016
Clifford Angell Bates
University of Warsaw
The problem is there is so little evidence of knowledge of Aristotle's politics among the Romans, such as Cicero and others.... They know the Ethics and the Rhetoric.. that is clear by their repeating of Aristotle's statements... but its not at all so regarding the Politics. This is also the case of the Arabs.
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